Curse

Zarconis · Apr 24, 2005, 12:11 PM // 12:11

After reading a post below about R/me I wrote this post in order to further the conversation. However, I did not want to hijack the thread in this discussion. I also did not feel that this is covered in the Ranger sticky.

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R/Me
I'm very drawn to R/Me myself. Those are my two favorite professions. I believe Ensign has stated on many occassions to what must be the truth of why I love these to professions the most, thy're similar. There's almost too many skills in the Me line that I believe complement the Ranger's line. Of course, Imagined Burden and Pin Down almost serve the same purpose so....

R/N?
After searching through the posts, I find it a hard pill to swallow to go R/N just for Rend. Are there any other skills that I might want to take into a PVP and a PVE situation ? All of them look "ok" I'm not a fan of Nec's though.

R/Mo
On the oher hand I see Judge's Insight as a upgrade from the Conjure line based on the fact that I don't have to worry about getting elemental strings. I also like the idea that I might have room for a res.

R/W
I find this build to be the head scratcher of the all builds. I never understood it, it seems like you gain the use of some skills that you could of found substitutes from other classes while losing all the armor that you could have been wearing. Someone tell me that there is some other reason than seeing rangers with swords.

R/E
By now we've all seen the shock sniper and how, due to the last change to conjure, it appears to be a bit of a tough choice just for that one skill. I like many of the Elemental lines of skills as I think they would help. Any AoE will send most foes running, and comboed with Hunter's shot, that means they'll be on the floor (well, at least one of them). Conjure was the only skill taken on Ensign's build and I wonder why? Is there no other skill worth taking over a Ranger's skill set ?

Scaphism · Apr 24, 2005, 12:48 PM // 12:48

I love that you reference Ensign in the thread title, that's classic.

Quote:

There's almost too many skills in the Me line that I believe complement the Ranger's line. Of course, Imagined Burden and Pin Down almost serve the same purpose so....

You almost got the wording right, but not quite.
Mesmer spells don't compliment Ranger skills- they compete for the top 8 spots. You don't care what the 9th best skill for shutting down a caster is- it's left behind. You're not adding any diversity to your skill choices- you're adding redundancy, and it doesn't help you.
Add to that, Mesmer spells don't benefit from expertise, most cost 10-15 energy, and have somewhat longer cast times because they're intended to be coupled with Fast Casting to be effective.
What you get is a Ranger that eats up his energy pool casting inefficient spells when he would be better off attacking and using ranger interrupts that are
A) Cheaper to use (because of expertise)
B) Do damage because they are bow attacks + Interrupts.

If you are planning for PVE, again, the mantra is do what you like.
Zealous Mods are a little less important than sheer damage because you want to lay down a lot of fire quickly, then you can rest up. Zealous is great in PVP because fights tend to be long, drawn out affairs, and your energy management becomes crucial. You have more room to fudge in PVE.

Again, when selecting a sub-profession for a ranger, you have to consider the energy costs of the skills you're bringing. Will they be affected by Expertise? If not, then you'd better have a persuasive reason for bringing that skill along.

Ranger/Elementalist
I can't think of much reason past Conjure to go Fire R/E.
With air I'd probably grab Conjure Lightning and Gale, then let it be.
For water I'd grab Conjure and maybe armor or a snare.
Earth has no conjure, so forget it. If you want protection on your ranger, play a Ranger/Monk.

Ranger/Necro
You don't really need Rend in PVE, but it's invaluable in PVP. My second character will be a Ranger/Necro, and I expect them to be very popular.
If you want something else, bring some warrior hate. Shadow of Fear and Enfeebling Blood are excellent choices, very good without a heavy attribute investment. Faintheartedness works in place of Shadow of Fear, substituting light health degen instead of a small AOE effect.

Ranger/Monk
Depending on how easy it is to switch secondaries, I may play a Ranger/Monk and briefly switch to necro to grab Rend and Shadow of Fear, then switch back to Ranger/Monk. Every party can benefit from a backup healer or emergency rezzer.

Ranger/Warrior
This one is a bit of a head scratcher at first glance, but it does kind of work.
If you can't afford to splash attribute points into Beastmastery for Tiger's Fury, then Frenzy is a great substitute with no linked attribute at all. Remember that stances are affected by expertise, as are shouts. Grab something like Shields Up or Watch Yourself and you get some free defense at minimal attribute investment.
And of course, you have the oh-so-popular Sword Ranger, because everyone knows Aragorn is teh Sexah, you cannot resist him so why try? Grab a sword yourself and vanquish some evil.

Ander Deathblade · Apr 24, 2005, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarconis

R/Me
I'm very drawn to R/Me myself. Those are my two favorite professions. I believe Ensign has stated on many occassions to what must be the truth of why I love these to professions the most, thy're similar. There's almost too many skills in the Me line that I believe complement the Ranger's line. Of course, Imagined Burden and Pin Down almost serve the same purpose so....

If you like R/Me the most, then play it. a R/Me you enjoy playing and work your build completely around, will be far better than picking a R/E for 13 extra damage a shot. Rangers are no longer a great damage profession, so even if you were getting the highest dps with conjure, you'd still be taking the wrong combination. In a way, all combinations are good, and in a way, they're all bad. Pick what you like best, that's what I've experienced. A warrior by heart, I switched to Ranger primary because of the incredible limitations a warrior has. I switched back when I realized that However many issues I have with warriors, they are my preferred style of play. I've played a R/Mes, and they can be extremely good. Go for it, 's what I say.

Quote:

R/N?
After searching through the posts, I find it a hard pill to swallow to go R/N just for Rend. Are there any other skills that I might want to take into a PVP and a PVE situation ? All of them look "ok" I'm not a fan of Nec's though.

PvE, R/N is a great profession. for PvE, rend is quite useless, and most other skills can be quite good. If you're not a fan of necros, don't take them

Quote:

R/Mo
On the oher hand I see Judge's Insight as a upgrade from the Conjure line based on the fact that I don't have to worry about getting elemental strings. I also like the idea that I might have room for a res.

keep in mind that Judge's Insight only lasts 18 seconds at full smiting, which you probably won't have.. 15 seconds of judges insight means you have to recast it four times in one minute. And it'll cost you 40 energy where conjure will cost you 10. It has its advantages, definitely. and the rez is always convenient. but consider it.

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R/W
I find this build to be the head scratcher of the all builds. I never understood it, it seems like you gain the use of some skills that you could of found substitutes from other classes while losing all the armor that you could have been wearing. Someone tell me that there is some other reason than seeing rangers with swords.

most people use it for Frenzy, just make a full ranger with Frenzy. Frenzy is a better skill for rangers than it is for warriors, because they are rarely in the eye of combat. And the Ranger also has the best armor vs. elemental, used to even have the best armor in general, with studded leather. Which was better than warrior armor, because it had 80 AL+20 elemental AL, and an extra arrow of regen. It was changed to 70/30 with a 15 AL bonus to lightning damage, which, with its energy bonus, is still a very valid reason to go ranger over warrior, even for a warrior char. Also keep in mind, Expertise lowers the cost of Attack skills, that also means melee attacks.

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R/E
By now we've all seen the shock sniper and how, due to the last change to conjure, it appears to be a bit of a tough choice just for that one skill. I like many of the Elemental lines of skills as I think they would help. Any AoE will send most foes running, and comboed with Hunter's shot, that means they'll be on the floor (well, at least one of them). Conjure was the only skill taken on Ensign's build and I wonder why? Is there no other skill worth taking over a Ranger's skill set ?

Because Ranger + Conjure = high DPS. what it does, is just add 13 damage to every shot you make over a whole minute. That's pretty nice damage gain, and you don't have to spend 2 seconds every 12 just to redo that Preparation. You can just shoot continually for a whole minute, recasting takes one sec, that's constant dps.

Gh0sT · Apr 24, 2005, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Im pretty new, but maybe i can add some and give some awnsers...

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R/Me: I think Ensign is right in this case... these 2 overlap each other with a lot of skills, that doenst immeadiately mean that it is bad, because some of the Me skills could be devastating (Shatther Enchantment for example).

R/N: Havent really looked into this combo. Mainly because i didnt really find a good spell on Necro side that i could use in combination with Ranger that quickly.

R/Mo: Pretty good all around, though the J.I. could be annoying since its somewhat harder to spam with (like with conjures), and (from what i've heared) when you need healing as a Ranger it ususally means ur being picked on which usually means ur prime healer (monk) is dead already. So perhaps a resurrect spell, but most of those cost hell of a lot energy.

R/W: I dont really see a good use in this, some people use this build for the frenzy skill on the Warrior side... But appart from the fact taht a ranger with a sword sounds kind of cool i dont really see any perpous in this.

R/E: Perhaps the build im gonna use, the conjure in combination with a buff like Tiger Fury and Barrage sounds wicked...

The problem being the Conjure is about hte only valueble spell from the E side, as most just cost too much energy for a ranger. Though maybe a snare skill would do good.

Another disadvantage is suppost to be the Zealous String, but i havent got a clue what it does (can someone explain), and if it reduces energy costs (thats what ive heared), is it worth it ? Because expertize does that for a big part on the Ranger skills already, and most secondary skills still cost a lot WITH energy reduced. Whereas conjure costs 10 energy for a 60 second enchantment.

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This is what i got straight from the forums and stuff, as i have no live experiance with Guild Wars (no BWE or anything)

cpukilla · Apr 24, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Rander/Mesmer is perfect for energy management if you don't want to use marksman's wager. Just take inspiration, and maybe arcane conundrum if you want to interrupt but don't want to take concussion shot. Conundrum is nice because it is effective with only a few points in illusion.

Something like this would work, I think :

10(+2) Marksmanship, 10(+3) Expertise, 8 Illusion, 8 Inspiration

Punishing Shot (Elite)
Power Drain
Read the Wind
Savage Shot
Arcane Conundrum
Hunters Shot
Penetrating Shot
(Extra)

Xellos · Apr 24, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I made my own Ranger/Mes during April BWE because I didn't have zealous or conjure strings.

The idea was that instead of having a conjure, you'd have illusion of weakness.

It'd be a straight up marksmanship/expertise/beastmastery pump. So nothing fancy. Tigers fury going in at 8-9 seconds was great, but that's not the real point.

The point is how it works so easily with PVP characters. With illusion of weakness, you had a constant enchant.

That lets you use the bows that give 15% more damage when enchanted and use it as a 100% always there almost.

It's a very cheesy idea, but one that I used decently and was able to pull off alot of wins from due to the constant 15%, that and a 8-9 second tigers fury is really cool.

Zarconis · Apr 24, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I want to do both PvE and PvP and would. If I do PvE, then I might conisder charm animal or some other skills that I would never bring into a guild match.

So I almost approach this as a good all around PVP build that I can take out into the big E and still have fun with. I'd rather that than having 3 Ranger/X characters on my account.

As far as Ensign goes, he reminds me of an old Starcraft player that used to write for a similar site.... oh those were the days.... in any case, the feild isn't long enough for Scaphism or Rex's name either (you're all good at giving advice on this particular subject - GW).

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Xellos - Very good point, but that hardly seems reason enough to choose a Me just for that. Surely there are cheesier and more beneficial enchantments than that.

Quote:

most people use it for Frenzy, just make a full ranger with Frenzy. Frenzy is a better skill for rangers than it is for warriors, because they are rarely in the eye of combat. And the Ranger also has the best armor vs. elemental, used to even have the best armor in general, with studded leather. Which was better than warrior armor, because it had 80 AL+20 elemental AL, and an extra arrow of regen. It was changed to 70/30 with a 15 AL bonus to lightning damage, which, with its energy bonus, is still a very valid reason to go ranger over warrior, even for a warrior char. Also keep in mind, Expertise lowers the cost of Attack skills, that also means melee attacks.

Good point

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As far as Ranger/Mo, I've kind of found something I like, but I'm struggling with what to bring to battle. Rebirth seems good enough but a guild battle's already decided if you're rezzing people as a Ranger.

Here's what I came up with, I'd love to see the error of my ways...

* I don't assume any bonuses from equipment, because I am not sure how available they will be.

Expertise 12
Beast Master 2
Marksmanship 10
Wilderness Survival 8

Smiting Prayers 1

- I'm still paying with the attribute points. Would love suggestions .

1) Melandru's Arrows [Wilderness Survival] (5,2,12) Preparation: For 18 seconds, whenever your arrows hit, they cause bleeding for 15 seconds and do +19 damage if they hit a target who is under an enchantment. This is an elite skill.

2) Judge's Insight [Smiting Prayers] (10,2,10) Enchantment: For 9 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage and have +20% armor penetration.

3) Tiger's Fury [Beast Mastery] (10,0,10) Stance: All your non-attack skills are disabled for 5 seconds. For 6 seconds, you attack 33% faster than normal.

4) Hunter's Shot [Marksmanship] (5,0,5) Bow Attack: If Hunter's Shot hits, you strike for +11 damage. If this attack hits a foe that is moving or knocked down, that foe begins bleeding for 18 seconds.

5) Penetrating Attack [Marksmanship] (10,0,3) Bow Attack: If Penetrating Attack hits, you strike for +13 damage and this attack has 20% armor penetration.

6) Savage Shot [Marksmanship] (10,0,5) Bow Attack: If Savage Shot hits, your target's action is interrupted. If that action was a spell, you strike for 23 damage.

7) Troll Unguent [Wilderness Survival] (5,3,10) Skill: For 10 seconds, you gain health regeneration +7.

8) Rebirth [Protection Prayers] (10,6,0) Spell: Resurrect target party member, teleporting him to your current location. All of target's skills are disabled for 10 seconds. This spell consumes all your remaining energy.

I was thinking of replacing Rebirth with Barbed Trap, Whirling Defense or Quickening Zephyr.

HotSnack · Apr 24, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

I generally use Mesmer skills as trump cards to augment a Ranger primary. Nobody said you'd need to be spamming skills from both of your professions, and a bit of self-discipline in terms of energy management goes a long way.

Gh0sT · Apr 24, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Well mesmer can be good, but what i notice a lot is that with mesmer i tend to take too much mesmer skills thereby probably causing an energy problem and discarding too many ranger skills (and i want to stay a ranger in the first place), therefore i thought of being a ranger with jsut conjure lightning so i could spam attack...

Though that conjure fire/mark of rodgort/glyph of lesser energy sounds wicked too (though the MoR costs a lot of energy even WITH the glyph

)

Valerius · Apr 24, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

was just wonderin'... say all i wanted from the Ele line is Conjure... now.. do all the Conjure's look the same when i use them ..like with Conjure Flame.. will the arrow be on fire? ... or if i have Conjure Lightning... will sparks be coming out of the arrow or something...? lol..

cause.. they all do the same thing... so i would just want to take the Conjure that looks the coolest

Ander Deathblade · Apr 24, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

if you're taking more than 2/3 mesmer skills in a ranger/mesmer, it's time to go mesmer primary.

Apr 24, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

R/Mes redundant? not so sure about that unless your build requires babysitting a target too long

Ensign · Apr 24, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what I mean when I say a class combination is 'bad'. It most certainly does not mean that a character of that combination will never be successful - especially when you're making PvP builds, you'll find all sorts of odd combinations that you'll want to run on occasion.

When I talk about good and bad combinations, I'm speaking of things like inherent synergy, versatility, and depth - things that aren't super-important when making a specific PvP build, but are incredibly important when you're deciding what to do with a character that's going to stick around a while.

To that end, a 'good' character combo is one that has his options open in every regard - they're backbone, staple characters for PvE and PvP teams, they have a ton of skill options that mesh well together, and the combination can be tweaked to fill many different roles. Combinations that I tend to label as 'bad' don't have those options - they tend to wind up being one trick characters that don't fit into a wider range of strategies.

To put it another way, if your guild is putting together a semi-serious team, your WaMo is going to be able to fit in and contribute on just about any team, while a WaMes is either something that a team needs to work around, or you'll be sitting on the bench.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarconis

I believe Ensign has stated on many occassions to what must be the truth of why I love these to professions the most, thy're similar.

Right, and similarity is not a strength. You only get eight skills, so it doesn't matter if you have five, ten, fifty, or a million skills that all do the same thing - you can only run so many of them, and only the best make the cut. In addition you don't have the versatility of other combinations, making this more of a niche character combination than an 'I fit into every party' combo.

That said, the niche you're in - caster hunting - is fairly important in PvP (though not PvE) so you'll still end up fitting on a fair number of teams. It's not a character that's good at anything else, but if all you want to do is kill Monks in the Tombs you could do a lot worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarconis

I find it a hard pill to swallow to go R/N just for Rend.

Someone has to, and the Ranger is the best man to do it. The combination is pretty natural, when you start to break it down. The Ranger has a ton of good skills that you want to run, making space tight - the Necromancer is fine running on 2 or 3 skill slots. The Ranger is extremely attribute hungry, wanting high Expertise, Marksmanship, and likely some Survival and Beastmastery as well - most Necromancer lines start to top out in effectiveness in the 6-8 range. Rangers are a solid ranged class that has a limited set of options when the opponent gets close - Necromancers have a solid skillset for freezing melee packs.

Basically the Necromancer doesn't offer a lot as a secondary, but the Ranger doesn't want a lot either, and what the Necromancer is selling is right in line with what you're looking for. The main reason not to play one? Because Rangers are the most popular class in Guild Wars, and it seems like every other player is running a three character, six class setup with a Ranger/Necromancer. They're nice, but they're one or two per party characters, and that doesn't quite work out when fully 1/3 of the characters around are Ranger/Necros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarconis

Someone tell me that there is some other reason than seeing rangers with swords.

Rangers with swords is the popular reason to take this combo, but there's a bit more to it than that. Take a Ranger with Frenzy, Shields Up, and Watch Yourself, and you have a fairly high damage machine that protects everyone around him. I normally look at this combination much as I do the Ranger/Mesmer, though - a specific character for specific needs, not something that's going to get played in a majority of parties.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarconis

By now we've all seen the shock sniper and how, due to the last change to conjure, it appears to be a bit of a tough choice just for that one skill.

Ah, but what a skill it is!

Seriously though, this is not a combination that you'll want to use if you want to switch up your roles at all. There is very little that the Elementalist offers the Ranger besides Conjure, and elementalized bows lock you out of zealous and other mods. The draw is that a solid, sustainable ranged damage dealer is always in demand, so you'll prove useful to a lot of teams even if you're inflexible.

Peace,
-CxE

Zarconis · Apr 25, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

I think what you mean is there are certain combinations that work out really well and leave the door for further tweaking after developing some guild strategies whereas other combinations pigeon-hole you into either a specific build or perhaps a build that could be better with different profession combinations.

I think that the other problem that you (ensign) mentioned is that in the case of the ranger you will have at least 3 attributes that you'll want in the high numbers, that doesn't leave a whole lot of room to boost your secondary profession's attributes at all.

Oh and where's the feedback for the build I posted...?

Jackell · Apr 25, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

A lot of Ranger/mes skills are overlapping, and that is a downfall, but a very few compliment the ranger and could complete the all aroundness. Being forced to strictly monk hunt? No.

Mesmer skills can affect either melee fighters or casters, so if you build it right you can be very versitale. Stop a monk from healing, drop an elementalist in mid spell, and take down the big men like a ton of bricks.

There's serious potential in the Ranger/Mesmer build. Just pick the right skills and play the right way.

Ensign · Apr 25, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackell

but a very few compliment the ranger and could complete the all aroundness.

A few compliment the Ranger? Most certainly. They don't make him an all-around versatile character though - that would take a secondary that covers up weaknesses instead of one that merely reinforces strengths.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackell

Mesmer skills can affect either melee fighters or casters

Here's the thing - if you want to shut down melee or otherwise physical attackers, why not just use a Necromancer secondary? Shadow of Fear + Enfeebling Blood, even at moderate attribute levels, is an order of magnitude more effective than anything that a Mesmer can cook up.

You want to use your Mesmer secondary to harass melee and casters? Now you hit the wall of how to get the Mesmer caster harassment up to par with your Expertise-affected Ranger disruption, plus pumping up an attribute to get even mediocre melee hate, plus still devoting the neccessary APs to the extremely-needy Expertise and Marksmanship.

In my experience, you are much, much better off running Pin Down + Barbed Trap for the slowdown on Warriors, and focusing the rest of your character more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackell

Stop a monk from healing, drop an elementalist in mid spell, and take down the big men like a ton of bricks.

First off, there's nothing in either the Ranger or Mesmer lines that will seriously hose Warriors. Lay the smackdown on casters? Sure. But you're not going to be more than a mild annoyance to a Warrior. What are you going to run, high level Sympathetic Visage? Please.

Second, you're trying to do everything with one character and that's simply a recipe for disaster. Well built PvP characters are specialists and are hardened to get around the various hate they'll encounter. You think a Warrior that's built to fight through the hardest Necromancer shutdown being thrown at them is going to be more than mildly annoyed by some mid-level Mesmer hate? You think a Monk that's used to playing around level 16 Backfires and Power Leaks is going to fear an opponent who's only half as effective? Trying to have a tool for everyone gives you a toolset that's effective against no one.

Peace,
-CxE

Jackell · Apr 25, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

A few compliment the Ranger? Most certainly. They don't make him an all-around versatile character though - that would take a secondary that covers up weaknesses instead of one that merely reinforces strengths.
[

There is no secondary that covers up all the weaknesses. There's is no impenetrable character with only 8 skills. But if you can target both fighters and healers, your going to be a good asset to a team.

Quote:

Here's the thing - if you want to shut down melee or otherwise physical attackers, why not just use a Necromancer secondary? Shadow of Fear + Enfeebling Blood, even at moderate attribute levels, is an order of magnitude more effective than anything that a Mesmer can cook up.

Casters are a higher priority than warriors in most times. So the target is more pressingly stopping the casting. But that doesn't mean you should just let the warriors go.

Quote:

What are you going to run, high level Sympathetic Visage? Please.

Let's not get condensending to each other on this man. I don't know if I sounded that way, I didn't mean to, let's keep this clean of that. The mesmer has skills to target a warrior, yes. Their not as powerful as a necromancer, yes. But in GvG and the tombs, your hardly ever going to be in a one on one. You take the lead role in taking down casters, and play as support for taking the warriors, and even the slightest "warrior annoyance" can assist your team in taking them down fast. One more pain in the ass to think about can make a major difference.

Quote:

Second, you're trying to do everything with one character and that's simply a recipe for disaster. Well built PvP characters are specialists and are hardened to get around the various hate they'll encounter. You think a Warrior that's built to fight through the hardest Necromancer shutdown being thrown at them is going to be more than mildly annoyed by some mid-level Mesmer hate? You think a Monk that's used to playing around level 16 Backfires and Power Leaks is going to fear an opponent who's only half as effective? Trying to have a tool for everyone gives you a toolset that's effective against no one.

But that doesn't mean you should totally drop the idea of having something to assist your team with the warriors. If all you can do is drop the casters and stand around afterwards, how much of an asset are you going to be over one who can still go after them. You make it sound like once the casters are done you may as well use /sit. And that's not the case. Even a slight annoyance can make a difference, when teamed up with the rangers other skills.

I don't want to see the same 4 builds only in game, and I don't want to see every build playing the same, when there's more that can be done with them. Once people stop playing around with the different combinations, is when the new combos stop getting discovered. We've been playing only the betas. One weekend a month. IMO, we have still yet to see all any build is capable of, and I would hate to see 90% of the population not even trying them out just because the message boards dismissed them right away.

Zarconis · Apr 25, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Since everyone ignored my attempt at a build there, I'll jump in here (this was my thread originally).

No one is arguing that a Ranger/Mesmer will be a bad overall build, what we are arguing (especially after doing more research) is that there are better options. Being a jack of all trades makes you valuable, very valuable in fact. However, your valuable-ness is only a result of the "team" lacking a specialist or two in that particular area. So at best you'll be the perverbial "6Th Man." You'll be called off the bench to play a role when your teams "REAL" starter is absent.
This is for G v G mostly. As stated elsewhere if you're going Arena or PvE you can do whatever you like, and you'll likely be at least effective enough to get the job done.

Finally, I wanted to leave you with a creative idea that sort of runs counter to some of this line of thinking. Think about this for a second, you can run a R/Me build with Blackout. That's right, Blackout. You want to assist in warrior take down and be a nuisance for those casters. Then blackout is your deal. You'll deal great damage with your Ranger skills, however, when it's two on one, you've effectively shut down whatever opponent your comrade(s) is(are) facing. I liken it to a "ghost" character of sorts. You're a badass on the field, but when it comes time to take down a target, you shut them down and release the "hounds." (Obviously, I've got Starcraft on the brain).

Auh · Apr 25, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Wouldn't Weaken Armor be useful for a R/N?

Gh0sT · Apr 25, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarconis

I liken it to a "ghost" character of sorts. You're a badass on the field, but when it comes time to take down a target, you shut them down and release the "hounds." (Obviously, I've got Starcraft on the brain).

I like you

, as a matter of fact my name is based on the starcraft Ghost.

Though blackout serves well as for RP'ing a ghost, i dont think its useful in battle, it renders yourself quite useless. And there are better spells out there to stop casters in their tracks... though in a 2 on 1 battle, or with a highly annoying caster it might prove its usefulness, i see no place for it otherwise...